Rye meal (bottom row, left to right): rye kernels, coarse, medium, fine
Note: This article first appeared in the Fall, 2017 issue of Bread Lines, the quarterly newsletter of the Bread Baker’s Guild of America.
When I buy a bag of wheat flour, I pretty much know what I’m getting. We’re a wheat-eating nation, and although there are no formal standards for wheat flour grading, the milling industry has reached a marketing consensus that puts everyone on the same page. So no matter who milled it, I can be confident that my bag of bread flour will contain 12-13% protein and 0.50-0.53%ash, my H&R/AP flour will come in at10.5-12% protein and 0.52-0.53% ash, my soft wheat cake flour will measure at 8.0-9.5 percent protein and 0.42-0.45% ash, and so on down the line for any other flour I might need. There are few, if any, surprises.
Rye is another matter entirely. Because of limited production and even more limited bakery demand, it’s been relegated to the status of “specialty grain” and left to individual millers to decide what to call it when they bring it to market. As a result, there is neither consensus nor consistency in grading rye flours. To cite a couple of examples, Bob’s Red Mill organic dark rye is the same flour that King Arthur sells as organic wholegrain rye. Meanwhile, KA’s organic dark rye, from which some endosperm has been removed, comes in at a stated ash content of 1.4%, versus 1.3% for its wholegrain rye, while Bay State’s dark rye, at a stated 2.4% ash, is the rye equivalent of first clear flour – that is, what’s left after the lighter grades are sifted out.
Grind is also an area of confusion. Most millers market their finest grind as flour and refer to coarser grinds as meal; however, some don’t. Last spring, when I gave a two-day BBGA rye workshop, I requested a couple of bags of medium rye flour. Accordingly, our sponsor went out and bought 100 pounds of Montana Milling medium rye, which seemed coarser and not quite like the General Mills/Bay State medium rye flour I was used to working with.
It turns out – as I discovered while researching this article – that Montana Milling produces only wholegrain rye and grades it according to the fineness of the grind. In other words, that “medium rye,” I’d been expecting (1.25% ash, 9.7% protein), turned out to be wholegrain rye (1.50% ash, 7.8% protein), milled into a coarser grind than I was expecting. Not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things, but different enough to affect the flavor, crumb and dough behavior of the breads we made.
And then there’s the matter of “pumpernickel.” Like ash content, the coarseness of grind affects absorbency, rheology (mixing characteristics), crumb density and mouth feel, and different grinds produce different results. A pumpernickel made with King Arthur’s Dark Pumpernickel Flour, which is a fine rye meal, is a very different bread from one made with Bob’s Red Mill Pumpernickel Dark Rye Meal, a coarser grind equivalent to medium rye meal. And both are radically different from the pumpernickels I make using coarse rye meal. Without a clear standard, the descriptor “pumpernickel” doesn’t help us.
Moisture content, which reflects the practice of tempering grain before it’s milled, is another area of confusion. Where wheat is tempered to a standard 14%, rye’s “standard” moisture content can range anywhere from under 11% to 14%, depending on the miller and the product. For example, for Bay State’s dark rye comes in at 11% moisture, while its wholegrain contains 14%, its medium rye 13% and its white rye 13.5%. Meanwhile General Mills white rye contains 14% and its medium rye 13.5% and Montana Milling’s wholegrain ryes come in at 10.97%. In real world terms, this means that it’s impossible to arrive at a true apples-to-apples comparison of ash and protein content without having to recalculate the percentages*. To muddy the waters even further, a lot of the mills I’ve contacted, notably Ardent Milling (formerly ConAgra), King Arthur, Central Milling and Bob’s Red Mill, don’t even routinely provide that information.
All of which only creates confusion and inconsistent results among bakers who want to add more rye breads to their repertoires.
In Europe, where rye bread is much more common, government bureaus are tasked with establishing clear and consistent flour grading standards. And unlike US flours, which are based protein content, European millers grade their flours according to ash content at 0% moisture. Not only does ash-based grading communicate a flour’s relative extraction rate and fiber content, but also the kind of absorbency, dough behavior and flavor intensity I can expect.
The confusion has gone on for too long, making things complicated where they ought to be simple. To address the labeling dilemma (and make bakers’ lives easier), I propose that the milling industry adopt a consistent standard modeled on Europe’s 0% moisture ash and protein guidelines. Such a rye standard might look like this:
| Grade | Moisture | Ash | Protein |
| White |
0% |
0.00-1.00% |
6.5-8.5% |
| Light |
0% |
1.01-1.30% |
8.o-9.0% |
| Medium |
0% |
1.31-1.60% |
9.o-10.o% |
| Wholegrain |
0% |
1.61-1.80% |
9.o-10.5% |
| Dark |
0% |
2.00%-3.00% |
12.o%-14.o% |
Adopting this kind of standard doesn’t require a great deal of work on the millers’ part, since they already have the analytical data at hand. And it will go a long, long way in helping the bakers who are their primary customers.
* To calculate a flour’s ash content at 0% moisture, divide the ash percentages by 100% minus the moisture percentage. Thus, to find the ash content of Bay State’s wholegrain rye, which is 1.50% at 14% moisture, divide 1.50% by 100%-14%=86%, giving ash content of 1.74% at 0% moisture. Find protein the same way.
Sabine FriedrichWalter
September 24, 2017Thank you for the Rye Classification in the USA, but I must say the medium Rye I got in my first order had the consistency like bulgur. The last order look like more crushed as chopped.. I might by a flour mill to make my own Rye meal for my German Rye breads. Thank you
Stanley Ginsberg
September 24, 2017I’ve found a lot of inconsistency in rye flours, both in terms of its appearance and behavior. In part, I suspect that it has to do with the fact that, because it’s such a marginal crop, very few millers strive for the consistency that’s characteristic of wheat patent flours. Instead of blending, they simply mill whatever is available — assuming it falls within their rather wide specification ranges — and ship it out. Perhaps when US bakers demand more and better classification things will change. For now, it’s a pretty confusing landscape.
Esther
December 30, 2019So if the rye flour looks white, it’s white rye, and if it’s dark then its pumpernickel?
Ted Fichtenholtz
September 24, 2017I thank you for clearifing the different level of protein in each flour.
Since we don’t use “ash” to grade flours why use that as a value especially since it is not printed on labels.
Stanley Ginsberg
September 24, 2017Ted, since rye is non gluten-forming, the protein content is nice to have, but doesn’t provide insight into how the dough will behave. Ash, on the other hand, is indicative of extraction rate, relative absorbency and flavor. Put another way, the biggest hurdle a lot of wheat bakers have is the expectation that rye will behave in the same way. It doesn’t; rather, rye’s unique starch-based dough chemistry dictates its own set of rules that need to be respected in order to achieve consistently good results.
Ted Fichtenholtz
September 24, 2017Thanks for the answer. I still don’t know why the ash rating is not put on the bags of flour.
It would help bakers
Jennifer
January 1, 2021I really want to make pumpernickel but can’t find coarsely ground whole grain rye flour. Everything i buy appears to be finely ground. Can you provide a link to buy a great rye flour for pumpernickel?
Stanley Ginsberg
January 17, 2021Take a look at my website, http://www.nybakers.com.
A.b.
February 16, 2021https://sunriseflourmill.com/product/rye-flour/
Bette
September 24, 2017Great article. Explains a lot. Standardization would definitely help.
MaryJo
September 24, 2017Thank you, thank you, thank you! I was really annoyed about the similar labels but wildly different products between brands that I tried/
Dan
September 25, 2017Is there a way for home millers, who are willing to sift, to approximate the grades/types of flours in your formulas? I guess another way to put it would be is, are extraction rates reliably correlated to ash percentages?
Stanley Ginsberg
September 25, 2017That’s a tricky one. I think the closest approximation would be to mill a known quantity of grain, then weigh the output to establish how much remains in the mill. I’d then put it through a 60 mesh screen and weigh the bolted flour, divide it by the original amount, and that should give you an approximate extraction rate. If you want higher extraction, I suggest putting the material in the sieve through the mill once more, then bolting it a second time.
As for grades and extraction rates, use 65-70% for white rye flour 80% for light rye, and 85% for medium rye. Wholegrain rye is obviously 100% extraction.
erik
December 28, 2017Thank you. What would be the extraction rates for coarse, medium and fine meal?
Stanley Ginsberg
December 30, 2017100% in all cases. Meal is simply ground up rye kernels in varying degrees of coarseness.
Phil Layzer
February 1, 2018Stanley,
I just used the last of my two 5 lb bags of medium rye from Central Milling. It has performed quite well. I was already planning to mill and sift, assuming it would be about 85 extraction, which I guessed was a close approximation of medium rye based on the feel of it. So I’m glad I saw this. I will use the sifted bits in the sponge.
Regards,
Phil
Eric S
January 9, 2021Thanks, Stan, this is helpful. What about dark rye? 120%? I assume you might make your own dark rye by taking what you’ve sifted out when making medium or light rye and adding it to some whole-milled rye. But how much?
wardo
September 26, 2017Where does Hodgson Mills Organic whole-grain rye flour fit into all of this?
Stanley Ginsberg
September 26, 2017I think in this case the name is both accurate and self-explanatory.
Caroline
September 29, 2017It may be self explanatory as to the name but in actual appearance and texture, I would classify it as an EXTRA fine rye meal-a category that is unique. It is definitely closer to the meal than the flour categories shown.
Again, I am so grateful you published this article. I wish there were more standard varieties of rye flour available to me locally-Hodgsen Mills is about it. I will probably be ordering my flour online as I get more into rye baking. So delicious!
Stanley Ginsberg
September 29, 2017Point well taken. Interestingly, Bay State Milling doesn’t produce a wholegrain rye flour; instead, they have an extra fine rye meal (which I’ve baked with). The distinction between it and, say, Central Milling’s wholegrain rye flour is a fine one (no pun intended), but certainly valid. I will, say, though, that in practice both can be used interchangeably with nearly imperceptible differences in outcome.
Karin Anderson
October 1, 2017You are so right, Stanley, and I do wish the milling industry would adopt your rye classification. For a German baker, used to baking rye breads, is the lack of standardization of rye in the US a source of frustration.
I hope the renaissance of rye appreciation will lead to more widespread growing and milling of rye in the US – with a little obstretic help from “The Rye Baker” 🙂
Iris Kaethe
November 6, 2017I have been making traditional honey cookies for Christmas for as long as I can remember. Two years ago I took the time to read the list of ingredients and discovered the commercial cookies made in Germany include rye flour. So I used a mixture of half rye and half wheat flour to make them that year. The products were soft and flavourful, the best I had ever made.
Last year I again used a mixture of rye & wheat flours, but the cookies were awful. They were hard and had an odd aftertaste. I’m so glad to have discovered this blog and wonder if the difference could be attributed to the rye flour.
In your experience what grade of rye flour would you suggest to make these cookies?
Stanley Ginsberg
November 6, 2017Without knowing what kind of flour you used for those batches, I’m hard-pressed to come up with an answer. Obviously the flour blend you used the first time gave the best results. Duplicate that blend and chances are your results will be equally good.
Adam Newey
December 20, 2017Hi, I’m wondering whether you’ve ever come across a rye flour graded T2500? My flour suppliers here in the UK – who crucially don’t mill rye themselves, only wheat – recently sent me this T2500 in reponse to my order of a dark rye (we’ve previously had a T380). The label says it comes from Austria.
My reason for asking is that this flour behaves completely differently from any rye I’ve used before. For a start it’s much more brown in colour than the greyish flour I’m used to. It also absorbs far more water – more like a scalded flour, in fact. And the flavour made me think it might have been malted, but the label gives no indication of this.
I’ve asked my millers about this, but they simply say this is a good-quality dark rye flour (as I say, they don’t have much experience with rye). And even Google has turned up nothing on T250/2500. So I’m hoping you might be able to shed some light. Thanks in advance!
Stanley Ginsberg
December 22, 2017With ash content in the 2.25-2.50% range, a rue dark rye, such as Bay State’s Wingold product, is the equivalent of Austrian T2500. The type, however isn’t recognized by the German regulatory authority (DIN), so there are no hard and fast standards for T2500 outside of Austria.
Andrew Mansour
January 3, 2018Thank you so much Stanley! I purchased your book last month and today made my first loaves of Old-School Deli Rye. They are delicious. I look forward to savoring every single recipe in the book, in order, one recipe per week.
I am in the process of opening a new bakery/sandwich shop in the Chicago area and hope to have a killer Reuben on the menu using one of your breads. Might you have any suggestions where I might look for local suppliers of rye flour? I am currently ordering from Amazon but they only carry one type of rye that ships Prime.
Stanley Ginsberg
January 4, 2018If you want larger quantities, try to locate a local bakery supplies distributor. Chances are they’ll have what you need.
Sean Colorado
March 27, 2018Stanley, I started listening to the Modernist BreadCrumbs podcast today and keyed in on Nathan Myhrvold’s observations about rye flour in the US. If you haven’t heard it, listen to Episode 1.5 at about 53.25 minutes in. Thought I’d share since it seems related to your interest in a U.S. standard. Here is the link:
http://heritageradionetwork.org/podcast/modernist-breadcrumbs-live-nathan-myhrvold-in-conversation-with-michael-harlan-turkell/
Stanley Ginsberg
May 8, 2018I disagree with Nathan about most things rye, including his opinion of American rye flour. How can I respect anyone who spikes all of their rye breads with vital wheat gluten? The key to baking with rye, IMO, is understanding and respecting rye’s unique chemistry and qualities, and mastering them rather than trying to sidestep by wheatifying this wonderful grain.
Caroline-clazar123
May 4, 2018Stan,
I just posted “Let’s talk about rye” on The Fresh Loaf (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56158/lets-talk-about-rye) and did link this article and the home page for your tour this fall. I have been baking with Hodgsen Mill whole grain rye (the only rye flour available to me locally) and enjoying every bite. But it is time to learn more about rye grain and I am amazed at the void of information. There is plenty of information on rye flour textures but not much on the varieties of rye used to produce that flour and also no information on the different characteristics of different varietal rye flours. Apparently, in the USA, all rye flour is the same except for the coarseness of the grind and that is often a mystery until the package is opened. I hope that changes!
Stanley Ginsberg
May 8, 2018Not completely true. Small craft millers like Grist & Toll (Pasadena, CA), Carolina Ground (Asheville), Aurora Farms (Northern Maine), Geechie Boy (South Carolina), Anson Mills (North Carolina) and Maine Grains (Skowhegan) are milling some very interesting varietals. As rye grows in popularity, I think we’ll start seeing a definite improvement in the variety and quality of the flours available.
Nem Popov
October 10, 2018I am a rye bread baker and so far I have been importing all the rye flour from Austria but now I looking to source the rye flour here in the US.
Do you have an idea which is the best address to turn to for
a.Toasted rye flour (I use this flour to achieve the dark brown color of rye breads)
b.Regular Rye flour (in Austria this would be Type 960 in Germany 1150 or 1370 and we do not know what is the closest to his type here in the US)
Stanley Ginsberg
October 20, 2018Closest would be German Type R997, which is not available here, as far as I know. nybakers.com sells a Type 1150, which will probably meet your needs.
Yippee
October 26, 2018Hi, Stan:
Would it be possible to figure out the classification of rye if the moisture and ash contents are known (14.0% and 1.8% max respectively)? The miller does not have the protein information. Thanks.
Stanley Ginsberg
October 27, 2018To calculate a value at 0% moisture, subtract actual moisture from 1 and then use the result to divide into the value you’re solving for. In this case, 100%-14%=86%. 1.80/0.86=2.09. Ash content would be about 2.1% maximum.
Pete Schaffer
February 3, 2019Are there different varieties of rye grain?
Stanley Ginsberg
February 16, 2019Yes there are …. a great many, in fact, depending on geography and history.
Peter K Schaffer
February 16, 2019Thank you.
Jeffrey
May 12, 2019Thanks for the informative post. This is kind of an unrelated question, but I’ve recently switched from making rye breads with European rye flours (mainly German and Russian) to using US rye flours. I’ve noticed that with the European rye, my long fermented breads with or without sourdough would always take on a distinct sweetness and (to me desirable) gumminess, which I understand is from the rye amylases breaking down starches into sugars. With the US flours however this sweetness and gumminess seems to be completely absent.
I was wondering if you have any thoughts or understanding of this matter? Could US rye be lower in amylase than European counterparts? Thanks.
Stanley Ginsberg
May 15, 2019I suspect that because of its long history in Europe as a bread grain rye was selectively bred to mimic wheat. In my experience with European rye, especially German and Russian, I’ve found it to be milder in flavor and lighter in color than North American rye, which for centuries has survived mainly as animal feed and ground cover. US ryes are capable of producing sweet doughs, but not so much as the European ryes. As for the gumminess, I don’t consider that a virtue, although I imagine it’s a preference that people develop from years of eating over-proofed bread.
Michele M.
June 6, 2019I make my own rye flour in my high-speed (Blendtec) blender and I know the Vitamix blender will do the same. What I am wondering is: what kind of flour am I making? I guess it is dark, since I am using organic rye berries I buy from the health food store.
Jeremy Shapiro
September 8, 2019What about rye meal? Is that rye chops…why can’t rye get a better representation here in America?
🙂
Stanley Ginsberg
October 13, 2019Rye chops are a type of rye meal where the grains have been cut rather than pounded. As for the representation question, it’s about market demand. If demand increases, millers will work to satisfy it. Right now, rye is still a very marginal factor in the overall baking market.
Alex
October 3, 2019I want to make some medium rye recipes but all the only rye flour I can find my town is dark. Is there a way I can sift or sieve the dark rye to convert it to medium somehow? Really frustrated by the lack of availability of anything other than dark rye.
Stanley Ginsberg
October 13, 2019Dark (i.e., whole grain) rye flour and medium rye flour are basically interchangeable. The only modification I’d make is to increase hydration by 2-3% if you’re using wholegrain.
Lauren
October 9, 2019Hi there, are there any mills that sell a decent organic ‘white’ or ‘light’ rye flour online in the US? Preferably in 10-50 pound bags?
I’m in Portland, Oregon, so Bob’s Red Mill is just down the road, but they only offer ‘dark’ organic.
Stanley Ginsberg
October 13, 2019Offhand, I can’t think of any, although you might check out Camas Country Mill and Cairn Springs Mill, both in PNW.
Andre Konstant
February 6, 2020Try Heartland Mills in Kansas. They have organic whole rye and organic white rye flours in small to large quantities. Snavely Mills in Lititz Pennsylvania has white rye flour (very good quality) that is not organic in 50 lb bags (their dark rye is a true dark rye, not a whole rye, and is a bit course: I use their dark rye at 35% and white rye at 65% to get a rye that approximates the Rye Baker’s 1150 rye; and I use a 50/50 blend for a whole rye, but will be going to Heartland Mills for whole rye, now).
Andre
Andre Konstant
February 6, 2020Forgot to state that going to Heartland Mills whole (graham) rye flour will lead to experimentation to get a satisfactory 1150 type equivalent: so more fun at the bakery! (seriously, it is great fun to experiment).
And, Stanley, thank you for your book: it has added graciously to our small bakery repertoire and the customers keep coming back for the rye breads, especially as we are the only ones in our small area doing them. It seems the word gets out and people we’ve never seen come to us (most ex-pats from German speaking nations).
Andre
Andre Konstant
February 6, 2020Correction, the 65/35 blend I make approximates a medium of about 1340 just below a “standardized” 1370. It is a good approximation, but I’d rather try with a whole rye than the coarser dark rye. I used to use Hodgson Mills, but it is impossible to find in grocery stores: one must order directly (at a very good price), but the shipping rate is exorbitant. It was less grainy than the dark rye, but not a flour, more like a soft whole grain meal. We shall see how Heartland Mills works; will let everyone know (I can get 50lb bags from a local wholesaler and avoid high shipping costs).
Andre
Tami
October 10, 2019I also mill my own organic rye berries. I use my grain mill and grind it at not quite the finest setting. What type of flour am I making?
Stanley Ginsberg
October 13, 2019Sounds like fine rye meal.
Tami
October 14, 2019So if I use a courser grind that will make the medium and dark rye?
LauraP
December 29, 2019I used to buy medium rye flour from Robin Hood. What brand and where could I get a similar flour? I love my grandmas Swedish rye bread but I can’t find the flour.
Carl
February 3, 2020If everyone is not aware of this: Hodgson Mills has been sold to New York-based Hudson River Foods (about June 2019). Their rye flour, which was always difficult to find in my (Fargo, ND) area, is now nowhere to be seen. The Hodgson website has stated “out of stock” for months. The customer service email ( customerservice@hodgsonmill.com) bounces, and the customer service phone number now goes to Hudson River Foods (and only resulted in “leave a message”). I emailed Hudson River Foods customer service ( info@hudsonriverfoods.com), inquiring about the flour, and was told the Hodgson Mills Rye flour should be back on the shelves by Sept 2020. That doesn’t give me much confidence.
In my area stores, all I can find now is Bob’s Red Mill Dark Rye Flour, which is much higher priced, and of a finer grind.
Craig
February 16, 2020I’ve gotten used to Hodgson Mills Whole Grain over the years, I like the breads it makes, and now, as Carl points out, it’s unobtainable. What’s my closest substitute? (I’m a home baker, about five loaves a week, and I REALLY don’t want to be milling my own flour — c’mon!) Manymany thanks to Stanley for his Guide for the Perplexed.
Stanley Ginsberg
February 27, 2020There are a lot of very good small mills that produce outstanding rye flours. You might check out Maine Grains, Carolina Ground, Grist & Toll and Cairnsprings. I’m sure there are many more; these are the ones I’m most familiar with. For more info on craft milling, take a look at The New American Breadbasket by Amy Halloran.
bob crowley
March 27, 2020there is another, old mill at guilford, great rye flour, although
i iunderstand there is a flour shortage in general now days, not just rye. this mill is near, winston salem, nc, if you want to buy in bulk, 25 lbs +, give them a couple of weeks notice.
Here is a link, and i took some pictures when i was there last summer.
https://oldmillofguilford.com/
Joel
April 19, 2020Hello Stanley, I am relatively new to bread making and would love to replicate a Rye Bread like I’ve had in NY City’s and LA’s Jewish Delis. You have so many Rye Flours and meals to choose from but which would you recommend for my application?
Thank you!
Joel Weiss
Stanley Ginsberg
May 6, 2020White rye flour and first clear flour.
Donna Newbern
July 21, 2020Any good Rye flour mills in or near Texas? Just moved from Bend,Oregon.
Sarah
August 8, 2020Thank you for all the comments Stanley. Coming from former Soviet Union to US almost 30 year ago and not being able to find bread similar to the one I grew up with in Ukraine I turned to learning about making it myself. Last few months I invested into experimenting with sourdough rye bread baking. I discovered online that missing ingredient that make up old country taste was fermented rye malt powder. I ordered on eBay from Ukrainian seller and once I got it and baked with it it was a Bingo moment. Any advice for buying it here in US. I buy my rye flour from Lindley Mills in NC. So far I used sprouted rye flour. But the have all varieties from non sprouted counterpart. Which type would be the best for darkest and riches flavored rye bread ?
Tim Mueller
November 15, 2020I realize this thread is getting a bit stale but it seems the most appropriate place to post a question about flour.
I had good success maintaining a rye sour culture using Hodgson whole grain rye for the feedings. It was readily available in my local market. Unfortunately, as commenters above have noted, Hodgson is no longer a functioning enterprise. I’ve been using Bay State medium rye meal and I’m not entirely happy with the results. What flour do others use to feed their sours? In particular, Stanley, what’s you choice from the NY Bakers repertoire of rye for feeding a sour culture?
Thanks!
Stanley Ginsberg
January 17, 2021I try to vary my flours in order to diversify my microorganism population. If I had to choose one, it would be NYB Type 1740.
bob crowley
January 17, 2021i ve been buying my pumpernickle at shiloh general store (amish community and the store is sorta amish staffed/owned?) they have light rye, dark rye and pumpernickle, i m looking at a bag, 5.335 lbs, .79 cents a lb, 4.21, larger dark flakes in lighter background, the dark rye is much lighter/fluffier by weight, i think the milling is different and maybe a sifting is involved and slightly more expensive than the pumpernickle, I buy in 5ish lb bags, they do sell in bulk, 50 lbs, but they would need to be notified i think to be have out of storage. i generally freeze my flours for 3 days, as there are no preservatives, the store is in harmony grove, NC and it has a website google shiloh general store. They buy in bulk from king arthurs and elsewhere,
other great place as i mentioned above is old mill at guilford in NC, supposedly mill has been operating since late 1700’s, also has a website is open 7 days a week